Curse

bhavv · Apr 27, 2009, 01:41 PM // 13:41

Requiem Bloodymare is a POS game.

I looked at one screenshot and fell off my chair laughing.

AND THEY HAVE AN ITEM SHOP (Pay money, buy stuff).

The closest that a free to play game has come in terms of quality to a B2P game that I can see is Perfect World, and yes, they use micro transactions.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

I don't mind paying for new features. I paid for a lot of new features.
But I paid ONCE.

I paid once for all other GW features,and for all other games I ever bought.
I had to pay once for Diablo and Diblo II.
I had to pay once for NEverwinter Nights.
I had to pay once for Dungeon Siege.
And the list goes on for all games I've ever paid for.
And one of the three main reasons I chose GW over other games because I had to pay once.

Paying is not the problem, the problem is the change in policy from 'pay once' to 'pay to use'. A way of payment that prevents me to access the content it grants access to.

And it' not a problem about something not neccesary to play, or just an 'extra'.

All prestige stuff such as different armors, weapon skins, miniatures or animals are extras too, but to get access to them you just have to have paid ONCE.

Just ONCE.

Comparing an MMO to a single player game = /FAIL

Sorry to burst your fantasy bubble, but there is not one single MMO in this world, nor will there ever be that can support itself using a 'Pay once' policy.

I had the same belief as you 4 years ago when I first bought GW, I thought 'All games should be free, I pay once and should be able to play it forever'.

Well, there's the whole problem that your $29.99 purchase price for the game isnt going to support the costs of server maintenence and regular updates.

Paying for new content is the exact philosophy that Anet had when they made GW, but it is very clear that Anet are NO LONGER ADDING NEW CONTENT TO GW1 as they are moving onto GW2, yet they have at least offered to keep the servers for the game running.

If you want the servers to be kept running for an online game which is no longer making new content, you are going to have to pay for something. Anet dont have any need to explain this or any reasons for why they are now offering microtransactions, it should be clearly and blatantly obvious to anyone that has spent several years playing MMO's.

Although that thing about EVE online allowing you to buy play time for in game currency sounds tempting to give it a try, I've been wanting to play a trial of the game for ages now, but never got around to it. I'll give it a try soon. It also has awesome graphics too.

R.Shayne · Apr 27, 2009, 01:43 PM // 13:43

What does it mean for the future of GW & GW2?

What can be offered before the game is no longer considered b2p?

A voltaic spear is cosmetic and does not affect game play. How many people would be happy if voltaic spear, storm dagger, Tormented weapons, and chaos axe were bundled into a package and offered via the in game store?

I am not happy with the new business model because of where it might lead to in the future. If GW2 goes down the path of micro-transactions then it will go down that path without my money.

ogre_jd · Apr 27, 2009, 01:48 PM // 13:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Improvavel

Sincerely the Imp and the bonus weapons give an initial advantage than none of these new buy options give.

Yes, but those are a bit of a different case - they just allow people to get the bonuses that come with specific editions of the game without having to buy the entire game again. Odds are that those wouldn't exist in the store if they weren't included with the boxed editions.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apollo Smile

The only game that comes to mind is City of Heroes, as all of its mini expansions have been completely free to subscribers.

...but also has a monthly fee, of course, and a fair amount of microtransaction content. $5 for a jetpack that lasts 30 days (it moves as fast as the normal Fly power does when you add no Enhancements to it), $10 for any of the 3 costume packs or the Good vs Evil Edition (2 costumes and a power) or Mac Special Edition bonuses (a costume and a new power; bought this microtransaction pack myself a couple of weeks ago

(basically, same deal as the GotY bonus pack you can buy for GW - allows you to get the specials that came with boxed editions), among other things.

fb2000 · Apr 27, 2009, 02:03 PM // 14:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by R.Shayne

What can be offered before the game is no longer considered b2p?

A voltaic spear is cosmetic and does not affect game play. How many people would be happy if voltaic spear, storm dagger, Tormented weapons, and chaos axe were bundled into a package and offered via the in game store?

I am not happy with the new business model because of where it might lead to in the future.

Thought GW isnt buy-to-play

As for the exotic items, I think youd be surprised how many were bought for real dollalz anyhow ;p. And dont get me started on the asian minis

.

BTW I wouldnt mind exactly that package, all weapons are easily attainable ingame anyhow. The key word you used tho - "where it might lead".

I'll restrain from reading this thread, its getting way too lame

willie nelson · Apr 27, 2009, 02:17 PM // 14:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by R.Shayne

What does it mean for the future of GW & GW2?

It means there will be GW in the future, and it means absolutely nothing for the future of GW2 (except perhaps that Makeover and Name Change might be available from the start, most likely for a fee, as is standard in every MMO on the market that has the feature, even the subscription based ones).

You people are getting hysterical over not having free haircuts, and you ask to be taken seriously...

Nothing else has changed, you could have bought a mule for more storage ages ago, now you can buy a mule integrated in the xunali chest.

You keep talking about how you're loosing the free-to-play part, yet you're conveniently forgetting all the free stuff that came with this update, the stuff you can ... you know... actually play, the stuff, might I add, that you never actually paid for as it was not in any of the boxes that you bought.

Tullzinski · Apr 27, 2009, 02:50 PM // 14:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkNecrid

World of Warcraft uses a lot of it's monthly fee money to pay for it's more than 700 servers world wide and hundreds and hundreds of Support members and thousands of GMs.

Dark, This was in PCGamer a few months back:
"The cost of maintaining their servers $200,000,000 total over the last 4 years."

Considering they make $165,000,000 a month just from monthly fees(11 mil subs x $15 a month). Their server costs for the year are covered in less than a month. Even when you factor in the support members and GM. They likely pay those costs in less than a month. Blizzard is making close to 2 billion a year on WOW.

OT - Just hope that these optional transactions do not lead to required transactions later on.

-------------------------------------------------------------------
Right now I feel like I did way back, when being told marijuana was a gateway drug, never did walk through that gate, but some of my buddies did. Lost some good friends (not dead just could not hang out with them when they came down from being coked up). Hope I do lose a good game...
/end wayback machine and wacky comparision

pumpkin pie · Apr 27, 2009, 03:02 PM // 15:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

Requiem Bloodymare is a POS game.

I looked at one screenshot and fell off my chair laughing.

AND THEY HAVE AN ITEM SHOP (Pay money, buy stuff).

OFF COURSE THEY HAVE ITEMS SHOP because players don't need to pay one single cents to register, download and log on to the server to play the FULL GAME, and surprisingly the server has very little lag compare to Guild Wars'

Now, if they start selling expansion packs and updates then there will be a problem.

Those are old screenshots. Look at the armor gallery, they look exactly like this in the game. But then again, if you like "shiny looking" graphics like those in perfect world, I cannot expect Requiem to suit your taste, perfect world/rRequiem is two different type of style graphical wise.

bhavv · Apr 27, 2009, 03:02 PM // 15:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tullzinski

OT - Just hope that these optional transactions do not lead to required transactions later on.

We are of course hoping that Anet realise this and arent stupid enough to implement purchases which are required or that offer any kind of strategic advantage.

Quote:

Originally Posted by willie nelson

It means there will be GW in the future, and it means absolutely nothing for the future of GW2 (except perhaps that Makeover and Name Change might be available from the start, most likely for a fee, as is standard in every MMO on the market that has the feature, even the subscription based ones).

You people are getting hysterical over not having free haircuts, and you ask to be taken seriously...

Nothing else has changed, you could have bought a mule for more storage ages ago, now you can buy a mule integrated in the xunali chest.

Exactly. Whiners are whining over having to pay for haircuts and extra storage tabs, but oh wait, but they havnt had any problems with buying extra characters as mules to get extra storage in the past!!! Or a second account!

If people want to buy a second account instead of a $9.99 storage tab, then feel free to do so. I dont want a second account, but I do want more storage and can at least purchase it if required, but first I will just get that extra 20 slot bag on my two main characters and hopefully that will be enough extra storage.

Apollo Smile · Apr 27, 2009, 03:08 PM // 15:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tullzinski

Dark, This was in PCGamer a few months back:
"The cost of maintaining their servers $200,000,000 total over the last 4 years."

Considering they make $165,000,000 a month just from monthly fees(11 mil subs x $15 a month). Their server costs for the year are covered in less than a month. Even when you factor in the support members and GM. They likely pay those costs in less than a month. Blizzard is making close to 2 billion a year on WOW.

OT - Just hope that these optional transactions do not lead to required transactions later on.

-------------------------------------------------------------------
Right now I feel like I did way back, when being told marijuana was a gateway drug, never did walk through that gate, but some of my buddies did. Lost some good friends (not dead just could not hang out with them when they came down from being coked up). Hope I do lose a good game...
/end wayback machine and wacky comparision

Everyone knows all of that money goes to merchandise for them to peddle off weekly on the website and to make commercials making consumers think that Mr. T and Ozzy play WoW.

bhavv · Apr 27, 2009, 03:11 PM // 15:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by pumpkin pie

OFF COURSE THEY HAVE ITEMS SHOP because players don't need to pay one single cents to register, download and log on to the server to play the FULL GAME, and surprisingly the server has very little lag compare to Guild Wars'

Now, if they start selling expansion packs and updates then there will be a problem.

Kind of hypocritical that you think it is fine for Requiem, but it isnt for GW?

GW will have NO MORE expansion packs, have you figured that out yet?

Both WoW and Lotro have a subscription PLUS full price expansions, do you have a problem with that? Probably, but you seem to have more problem with GW charging for optional haircuts.

GW isnt making anymore income, no more expansion packs, but Anet and the players want to keep the servers going with regular updates and balances, so now we have micro transactions.

Or, they could just close the GW servers once GW2 is out instead of adding in micro transactions.

The server for Requiem would have less lag then GW maybe because there are fewer people playing or is hjaving to send and recieve less data. Plus, no F2P MMO has graphics as good as GW even yet, Perfect World is ok to get by, but it still isnt as good. If youwant to play Requiem, then go and do so and stop whining over Anet charging for haircuts and extra storage on an online game which is no longer making any revenue, but you want to keep on playing.

Your logic, reasoning and arguments are all flawed, you cant have a MMO which is 100% free to play if it is no longer going to recieve new expansions or chargeable content, they will have to charge for other things like haircuts and storage if you want the game servers maintained.

bhavv · Apr 27, 2009, 03:18 PM // 15:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apollo Smile

Everyone knows all of that money goes to merchandise for them to peddle off weekly on the website and to make commercials making consumers think that Mr. T and Ozzy play WoW.

Plus they have the resources to make Diablo 3 OMGWTFBBQ Sauz amazing.

It isnt Blizzards fault if they release a product with a subscription charge, and millions upon millions of people pay to play it.

A product is released with a price. People can choose to buy it or not. There is nothing wrong / immoral / unethical about that procedure.

I choose not to pay fees to play a game because I dont play anything solidly for months at a time and cant get my moneys worth. I like games that I can pick up and play a few days at a time, and then stop and return whenever I feel like it. GW is still like that.

Imaginos · Apr 27, 2009, 04:10 PM // 16:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by willie nelson

Guild Wars is a game that will receive no further campaigns or expansions, which means that revenue from retail sales is and will be for the entire future of this game on a steady decline, which will probably turn into a sharp decline once GW2 is released.

Anet has said that they plan on keeping GW servers alive and updating balance and weekly events for the game as long as someone is playing. To do that they need GW to make some money now and after GW2 release, if you think they're gonna use GW2 sales to finance GW1, you are sorely mistaken. That's not how businesses work. You don't keep something that you lose money on.

Makeovers, name changes and more storage is a thing that a lot of people have been screaming about since the initial release of the game four years ago.

All those things any one player can do without and they do not impact the gameplay in any way whatsoever.

So, insuring GW's future in a way that people who spend more time with the game(and you do have to spend a lot more time with the game than a casual player to have full storage in its current form) and have more money that they wish to spend while not gaining any advantage over people who just bought and play the box version of the game... I say, gg Anet.

The game is still free to play, what you bought when you bought the boxes is still there and always will be, not to mention we got some free stuff along the way as well(more storage among that, too).

All "but in the future there will robots and more microtransactions for important stuff and this is only how it starts" talk is for now just talk.

Not to mention how stupid "GW2 will be microtransaction based" talk is as nothing on the game has been released except the initial "it's gonna be free to play".

Heh you're post is funny. Take a look at Blizzard and Starcraft, Warcraft (not WoW) Diablo, Diablo II...all free to play forever, they have some skill updates and balances done now and then and as new chapters/games come out Blizzard does not take these games offline. To do so would alienate their customer base. They also don't charge micro transactions for these games to keep running. These were running long before the huge success WoW was/is and Blizzard was making a nice tidy sum before WoW.

GW2 + Microtransactions isn't "stupid" as Anet has now proven that this is a road they are walking so it is logical to expect when they come out with another "free" mmo that they will follow the same footsteps to make money beyond sales of the game. The question will be just how far they think they'll be able to push microtransactions.

No matter what people say here, the sales numbers that Anet gets is what will determine if they will keep doing microtranactions. That and accounts that are not logged into any more. If there's a huge drop off in people playing due to these new micros then they may re-look at them. If they sell like hotcakes, or what Anet feels are hotcakes you'll see many more in the future and you can damn well bet they'll be in GW2.

The question will be if people are upset enough with microtransactions to actually NOT buy GW2 in order to let Anet know just how irritated they really are. You speak with your wallet.

Improvavel · Apr 27, 2009, 04:31 PM // 16:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by R.Shayne

What does it mean for the future of GW & GW2?

What can be offered before the game is no longer considered b2p?

A voltaic spear is cosmetic and does not affect game play. How many people would be happy if voltaic spear, storm dagger, Tormented weapons, and chaos axe were bundled into a package and offered via the in game store?

I am not happy with the new business model because of where it might lead to in the future. If GW2 goes down the path of micro-transactions then it will go down that path without my money.

3 words: Bonus Mission Packs.

I'm going to explain you how the human mind works.

Its rare, can look as shit, but if it is rare and few people have, certain individuals will pay whatever it takes to get one.

The moment its not that rare and everyone can get it people don't want it anymore.

Example: Elemental Swords.

willie nelson · Apr 27, 2009, 04:51 PM // 16:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Imaginos

Heh you're post is funny. Take a look at Blizzard and Starcraft, Warcraft (not WoW) Diablo, Diablo II...all free to play forever, they have some skill updates and balances done now and then and as new chapters/games come out Blizzard does not take these games offline.

Heh, your post is even funnier. Blizzard paid off all their costs for battle.net from now to eternity within the first 15 minutes of Diablo 2 release. Each one of those games that you mentioned has sold in the range of 10 milion copies, and still continues to sell well to this day.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Imaginos

They also don't charge micro transactions for these games to keep running.

There's lots of whispers regarding the new and improved battle.net that seem to indicate that's where they're headed, if not even making it subscription based.

Lonesamurai · Apr 27, 2009, 04:57 PM // 16:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

Although that thing about EVE online allowing you to buy play time for in game currency sounds tempting to give it a try, I've been wanting to play a trial of the game for ages now, but never got around to it. I'll give it a try soon. It also has awesome graphics too.

Go for it

and because there is no initial cost (unless you buy it on steam, but don't) i hadn't even noticed I was happy to pay the sub every three months and now every two and now with ingame cash

pumpkin pie · Apr 27, 2009, 05:09 PM // 17:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

Kind of hypocritical that you think it is fine for Requiem, but it isnt for GW?

Quote:

Originally Posted by pumpkin pie

Now, if they start selling expansion packs and updates then there will be a problem.

Read please, won't you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

Both WoW and Lotro have a subscription PLUS full price expansions, do you have a problem with that? Probably, but you seem to have more problem with GW charging for optional haircuts.

snipped

Your logic, reasoning and arguments are all flawed, you cant have a MMO which is 100% free to play if it is no longer going to recieve new expansions or chargeable content, they will have to charge for other things like haircuts and storage if you want the game servers maintained.

i don't play Lotro, haven't try it, don't intent to because its stupid to pay when you can play for free while waiting for GW2.

I do play WoW at one point, have an account ready for me, to play anytime, but I choose not to, I asked my sponsor to discontinue because I think its stupid that they charge and sell expansions and have ads revenues and sells figurines, go look for it yourself, whole long list of greediness, I even have someone ready to power level me. I've actually mention this before in a thread here on Guru. too lazy to look for it now.

helloooooooo, did I ever say GW is FREE.

I do not and did not ask them to be FREE. I saw someone calculated that if you purchase most of the stuffs for one set of GW account with character slots and all, it gets to $500, I have 3 x that. Which would be roughly $1,500, FREE? I DON'T THINK SO.

helloooooooo, last I checked, I've not paid Requiem one cent, and I am log on now, farming happily, and I do not plan to paid them ever

Requiem even give you 100% drop increase for one hour every now and then and if not mistaken, that is a feature they sell on their item shop.

Improvavel · Apr 27, 2009, 05:56 PM // 17:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

$0. But I've given them far more in chapter sales than just about any other game company, and many of those other game companies give out more free updates. Seems weird doesn't it?

Lets look at some games.
Warcraft III. Then an expansion pack called Frozen throne. Paid for both.
Starcraft. Then an expansion called Broodwars. Paid for both.
Dawn of War. Then 3 expansions.
Half-life. Loads of expansions.
Half-life 2. Loads of expansions, stand alone and episode packs.
WoW. 2 expansions that need to be paid.
Etc... Etc...

It seems the general trend is to pay for the new content.

Quote:

Um...are you kidding me? We have known about and wanted this stuff for years. The reason Anet is selling them now is because of that reason. That is why I think it is a slap in the face but apparently not as many agree with me. In fact Anet basically lied to us by saying that some of these things weren't possible when in fact they were. If the microtransactions in themselves aren't bad enough, even the way they went about releasing them was bad..they just popped it on us out of thin air one day (so I guess it is possible after all) with outrageous prices. And even if you like the microtransactions, even you can agree that the prices are out of control.

So we aren't talking anymore of game advantages. Its because some features people required are there but aren't free.

Well I'm not sure what Anet did say or not in all this 4 years, but I was under the impression it was possible to change the name, since people can get their name banned and then change it and the sex change was also possible since Anet did that with the April's Fools updates.

I also believe they said it wasn't easy not impossible.

Rocky Raccoon · Apr 27, 2009, 06:38 PM // 18:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Imaginos

Heh you're post is funny. Take a look at Blizzard and Starcraft, Warcraft (not WoW) Diablo, Diablo II...all free to play forever, they have some skill updates and balances done now and then and as new chapters/games come out Blizzard does not take these games offline.
like hotcakes, or what Anet feels are hotcakes you'll see many more in the future and you can damn well bet they'll be in GW2.

Have you heard of subsidizing? That is what WoW allows them to do with theses other games.

DreamWind · Apr 27, 2009, 06:45 PM // 18:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by fb2000

"whether you agree or disagree with microtransactions is irrelevent."
Exactly. But why am I idiotic? Please explain. I dont see how anything of the new "items" in the cashshop offer any competitive advantage in any way.
Hell, the old things such as PvP skill unlocks seem a lot more "bad" than that...

Those ARE a lot more bad than this, but we aren't talking about those now. My point was you are idiotic if you use the argument I mentioned. You aren't neccessarily idiotic if you think microtransactions are ok.

Quote:

Originally Posted by fb2000

Stop spinning weak-ass theories on how GW is going down because anet "might" do something in the future, and concentrate on what they ARE/HAVE done..

The problem is I used to focus on what they might do and it turned in to what they are/have done. I see no reason to not ask the question...where does this end and why should it end? Nobody has yet answered it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apollo Smile

Pray tell, what companies are giving out all these "free updates" as you claim, Dreamwind? Last I looked, games like World of Warcraft, Final Fantasy XI, and Everquest 2 expect you to purchase expansions on top of paying monthly fees.

Hmm...so you name 3 games that have monthly fees, but you don't name the thousands that do not have monthly fees. You also don't name all the games that have been giving free updates for years without charging the players for anything. Makes perfect sense. Yea I know somebody is going to go "well we are talking about MMOs here". Well there are some MMOs that fit the category as well (some named by others). But regardless that isn't my problem, it is Anet's. They changed their business model to something I no longer like, and they will not get another cent out of me. I gave them money when I liked what they were doing, and now I don't like what they are doing. I wish them well, but I can't stand the direction they took their franchise.

Quote:

Originally Posted by willie nelson

I highly doubt that for GW2 they will change a model that obviously works, and where they have no competition in the market, for something that every second MMO is doing. To do that would be profoundly stupid and should Anet do it, they deserve the Epic Fail they would get.
However, from Mike O'Brien's comments in that last interview I think it's pretty safe to say they've figured that out as well, so I doubt that's where we're headed.

LoL...you are going by Mike O'Brien's words? Lets see...the same guy who said they would NEVER sell in game updates or fixes...only expansions/standalones and content that came with them. Yea sounds credible.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

Sorry to burst your fantasy bubble, but there is not one single MMO in this world, nor will there ever be that can support itself using a 'Pay once' policy.

I disagree with you as I stated earlier. But even if you are right, don't you think Anet would have thought of that when they created the model they were going to live by?

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

A product is released with a price. People can choose to buy it or not. There is nothing wrong / immoral / unethical about that procedure.

So if Anet released god mode for sale in the store, it wouldn't be wrong, immoral, or unethical. It would just be a product released with a price that people can choose to buy or not. I'm glad you are thinking clearly.

As tired as I am of the "it is optional" argument, I am also tired of the "this is good because Anet needs money" argument. Why? For starters they don't NEED money...they have shittons of it. Do they want more money? Sure and thats fine. But what we have in microtransactions this is Anet's new found gold mine and they will never go back to the old way of doing things. Now lets look to the future. If they decided to sell gold in their store (I'm not saying they would just a hypothetical), it would be epic fail for some, but epic win for Anet from the money they would generate from it. Does that make it right? People need to stop thinking in terms of what is good for Anet, and start thinking in terms of what is good for the game and its players.

Quote:

Originally Posted by willie nelson

Heh, your post is even funnier. Blizzard paid off all their costs for battle.net from now to eternity within the first 15 minutes of Diablo 2 release. Each one of those games that you mentioned has sold in the range of 10 milion copies, and still continues to sell well to this day.

Uh? Blizzard was maintaining and updating Bnet for years before Diablo2 came out. They were also updating Diablo1 and Starcraft and Warcraft2 in the process (and continue to do so to this day I might add). I never paid them other than buying the game. Lastly, Guild Wars has sold over 6 million copies. This isn't even including their online store sales. Quit telling me Anet is somehow is the poor company when they are far more successful than a lot of others out there right now.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Improvavel

Lets look at some games.

It seems the general trend is to pay for the new content.

What is your point? I never said paying for content is bad. I said paying for noncontent is bad.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Improvavel

I also believe they said it wasn't easy not impossible.

I'll have to pull the quotes, but I'm pretty sure at least one person at Anet said some of these things were "very hard to the point of it will never happen". Funny how it sprung up on us. You think maybe they would have talked to the players BEFORE they did the work to implement it? I can't wait for the auction house to pop up next so I can see what they are charging.

Apollo Smile · Apr 27, 2009, 06:51 PM // 18:51

I'm sorry, should I list off the thousands of awful "free2play" korean grindfests?
Not a single one of them even comes close to the quality of Guild Wars. Anyone who has tried them can vouche for that.

I'll give you some credit though, DreamWind, you could probably take on the world.